Surviving Narcissistic Abuse – Kimber Foster’s Path to Empowerment

Brad Minus: And welcome back to another episode of Life-Changing Challengers. Hey everybody. I've got Kim Foster with me. She is an author of a book that she published just last year, right around this time actually called The Year of Thorns, what To Expect When Divorcing A Narcissist.

So she's gonna tell us all about that. We're gonna get to know a little bit more about her, and then we're going to get some great little nuggets on, you know, are you possibly in one of these marriages? Maybe not. Are you seeing some of those behaviors? We'll see. So, but first Kimber, how you doing today?

Kimber Foster: Hi, I am great. Thank you for having me. 

Brad Minus: Thank you. Hey everybody. Do you see that smile that she just had? Isn't that pretty awesome? I swear to God, when I popped open Streamyard, which is what I used to do these conversations, I swear to God it was Goldie Hawn look at me in the face. 

Kimber Foster: I get that daily.

Brad Minus: yeah. And I had to step back and just, you know, think how lucky that, you know, that they get to hang out with Kimber. You're welcome. So, Kimber, can you tell us a little bit about your childhood? You know, like where you grew up, what was the compliment of your family and what was it like to be Kimber as a kid?

Kimber Foster: I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan. A very nice, safe, conservative town in Michigan. I had two older brothers. I was an, oops. So my brothers were 12 and 14 when I was born. 

Brad Minus: Oh, wow. 

Kimber Foster: And I was a big surprise, as you can imagine. And my dad, you know, was a traditional, my mom was an at-home mom. My dad went to work, he ran the family business.

but growing up I was alone a lot. my brothers, when I was in kindergarten, they were in college. So I think, you know, looking back, I think that's where I learned to be a people pleaser. I always felt like I needed to please people to get their attention, to have love, and that kinda what led me on my path down, down the lane to being an empath.

Brad Minus: You're not the first person that I've had the opportunity to interview, about a narcissist relationship that is also an empath. Very, very interesting. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: So your dad ran the family business. What type of business was that?

Kimber Foster: General contractors. five generations, all the. Men in the family have taken over. Yeah. Very successful general contractor. They were married over 60 years. Really great parents. Wow. Good role models. 

Brad Minus: Years. 

Kimber Foster: No. That's 

Brad Minus: tell me about your childhood. were you into anything cheerleading, sports?

Oh yeah, 

Kimber Foster: I was the, the overachiever. Oh yeah. Student council, president, cheerleader, homecoming. You know, I did all that in high school and college Greek system. I did it all. 

Brad Minus: what was your sorority? 

Kimber Foster: I was an Alpha Kay Omega. 

Brad Minus: Alpha Chi Omega. Okay, great. 

Kimber Foster: brother. 

Brad Minus: we're made to talk to each other. I'm telling you. yeah. You know, if you can't go Greek, go teach. you, I always say that, but that's always funny. I was actually a cop. Good days. I was actually an alpha class member. so, you know, a re beginning of our.

Chapter at the college that I went to. but that's great. So did you go to college? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, you were in Alpha K Omega? Yeah. where did you go to school? 

Kimber Foster: I went to Western Michigan University, Kalama, Michigan.

Not too far from home, but far enough. 

Brad Minus: I was the exact same way. 

Kimber Foster: I was like 

Brad Minus: about 150 some odd miles. Yeah. From home. Just enough that if I got homesick, I can race home and do some laundry. and, but far enough that parents couldn't turn up on my doorstep whenever they wanted. Mm-hmm. So that's good.

What did you study in school? 

Kimber Foster: I had actually three, degrees, psychology, communications and business. I could figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up and I still really don't know. 

Brad Minus: Did you get all three of those degrees in four years? 

Kimber Foster: I did. Yep. And I waitressed and bartended too, and part of the Greek system and a student council and all that.

I was a busy girl, but I loved it. It was so much fun. 

Brad Minus: Oh my God, I can't even imagine that. I mean, I've got a major and a minor and I. Barely made it in four years. I also was a part of the Greek system, I also was a cheerleader.

I was a base, obviously it wasn't, I wasn't flying anywhere. 

Kimber Foster: ex-husband was a cheerleader too. 

Brad Minus: Okay. We'll get into that here in a minute. Is that how you met? 

Kimber Foster: Yeah, we met in college. 

Brad Minus: He, was he your base? 

Kimber Foster: No, I wasn't a cheerleader in college.

Brad Minus: Oh, Okay. Later on 

Kimber Foster: he was 

Brad Minus: okay. 

Kimber Foster: Bu 

Brad Minus: a family, family show. No, it's not actually, it's not a family show at all. my last episode, was the swearing therapist and she had f-bombs rolling all over the place, so I think can have a little, 

Kimber Foster: that was my, my small attempt at humor, 

Brad Minus: no, it was very good.

It was very good. so but you met in college. Did you get married? Right outta college. 

Kimber Foster: We did. Wow. 24. Okay. Yep. Right outta college four. 

Brad Minus: What did you end up doing as for work? Or did you, were, were you a stay at home or 

Kimber Foster: No, no, I worked, so I got really involved in planning events.

I planned the Greek week in college and right outta college I ended up planning, special events for charity. So I was with that charity for quite a few years. 

Brad Minus: Cool. 

Kimber Foster: the March of Dimes. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, so I planned all their walk-a-thons and bid for bachelor's and golf outings and I loved it, you know, and I also felt like I was making a difference.

Brad Minus: Yeah. That, you know, it's amazing that you say that. So, I'm an endurance coach, you know, I help people through, marathons and ultra marathons and triathlons and Ironman triathlons and all that stuff. and I did numerous amounts of marathons for charities and there was a couple times we did it for teams.

Mm-hmm. So, the Chicago Marathon, we did a couple times and we did it for the PKD Foundation, which is the Polycystic Kidney Disease Foundation. and We did it as a team twice. We raised about a hundred thousand dollars and we always had that person like you. We had that person with us.

We'd always, once we started, we talked to them, they would help us, you know, where, where do we put the money? Help us set up the websites, help us, you know, get started, help us, you know, design, our, our events that we did, in order to raise the money enough to then run the marathon. so if you were like that, I praise you because those people deal with a lot of stuff and, And they're just, I mean, most of 'em are just great people. So I imagine that, I mean, just from knowing a little bit about you, I'm sure that, that that's exactly the way you were. what a great job you get to do. 

Kimber Foster: I met a lot of great people.

Brad Minus: What did your husband end up doing? 

Kimber Foster: Well, it was funny. when we were in college, we both worked at bars together. And then when he graduated. he ended up being a general manager for a number of those bars and restaurants. So we had completely different schedules.

I was working eight to five. He's working two to two, still kind of live in the college party bar scene. after a year, I always said this wasn't working out like I had hoped. 

Brad Minus: That was after a year. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah, it was a really difficult first year. I mean, there was a lot of red flags even that first year.

But, that's when I kind of said either, you know, change or I'm out. And so he got a job with a corporate big company, and thus I became married to a salesman. And then we moved like every three years after that, living all over the world. 

Brad Minus: Wow. So in the beginning, things obviously were good.

I mean, he did exactly what you asked him to do, 

Kimber Foster: his goal when we were dating was to own his own bar. But I think he realized quickly that you have to be there 24 7, otherwise people steal was, you know, long hours.

And, yeah, it was a good thing. It was a good thing for us both. 

Brad Minus: Okay. That he 

Kimber Foster: made change to corporate. 

Brad Minus: So give us a quick list of some of the places that you ended up living, or at least give us the list of the places that you liked living. 

Kimber Foster: I loved everywhere we moved, and I was lucky I moved with the March of Dimes for like, three of the moves, and then I made the jump into the corporate world.

I lived in Iowa, Des Moines, Iowa. Okay. I lived in Nashville, Tennessee. I lived in Philadelphia. Chicago, back to Michigan a few times in between there and then I lived in Ireland and Puerto Rico. 

Brad Minus: Okay, well first of all, I have to tell you that I grew up in Chicago, but Ireland.

Wow. How did you like that? 

Kimber Foster: I loved it. 

Brad Minus: I was 

Kimber Foster: it's a rainy, rainy place, but it's just beautiful and the people are so wonderful. 

Brad Minus: So is the Guinness stronger over there than this here or, you know, is that just a 

Kimber Foster: I think it is. I think it really is.

Brad Minus: I just got back from London and, I got Guinness on tap and I didn't taste the difference. I'm a Guinness fan, so I like it and just, it's rare to find, at least down here in Florida where I live now, it's hard to find a pub that actually has it on tap.

So I was in heaven. In London, everywhere I went they had it on tap. So, was, was ha was happy about that. So. All right. So you lived all these different places. And, you had mentioned some red flags coming up. When did things start to, did you really feel like they started to have a little bit of a down slope?

Kimber Foster: He had lied to me. He cheated on me. He gambled away all the money we got from our wedding. I didn't sign up for this, but no one in my family's have ever been divorced, you know? So I took my vows seriously, and he, he made a change.

And so I thought it was a new beginning, but. as the years went by, as his career grew, so did his ego. And so did his need for control. And moving every three years too also led to my isolation and alienation from a support group too. he was my world, my focus and then my kids later on, but 

Brad Minus: were you still in the process of doing these moves every three years when you had your children?

Kimber Foster: Yeah. Yeah, so when we moved to Ireland, I just had my third child, so he was six months old when we moved to Ireland, and I didn't have a green card there. So I became the quintessential, you know, at home mom, executive wife raising the three kids overseas. You know, I got involved though with the PTA and all that stuff.

Brad Minus: they have that in Ireland. 

Kimber Foster: sure 

Brad Minus: Alright. 

Kimber Foster: You know, but no, but they do have alcohol at school functions in sporting events. So yeah, I moved back to the States and I went to a football game. I'm like, where's the beer booth?

Brad Minus: Oh, man. So, all right, so in Ireland, what, well, what, what ages are your kids now? 

Kimber Foster: Oh, they're grown. So I have a 28-year-old son in Dallas. A 25-year-old daughter in Miami, and then my youngest is in college in Utah. 

Brad Minus: Park City. Beautiful. 

Kimber Foster: all game skier.

Brad Minus: they're all successful. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah, they're all great. 

Brad Minus: Wow. 

Kimber Foster: lucky. 

Brad Minus: Great. No matter what you went through, you still ended up being a great mom. 

Kimber Foster: did, and I have a wonderful family, so 

Brad Minus: That's awesome. Yeah. So, so you, you, you're mentioning that, okay, so he's getting promoted, he's gaining this ego, which I mean, you can't blame as you get up and you start becoming the boss, start things start to, you have to start making changes 

Mm-hmm. You actually end up becoming more isolated, even at, he would end up being isolated at work because the friends he had either were now his subordinates or he passed them up. and then you learn to be a boss, not a friend. which is very tough, by the way.

And I found that to be tough. so do you think that's kind of the way it started to happen? He started getting more control at work, therefore he wanted more control at home. 

Kimber Foster: It's interesting. I think it's more of his deep sense of insecurities that projected his.

Need for control and to be the center of attention. he had this grandiose sense of superiority, you know, and when he walked in a room, he always had to be the center of attention, and he would put people in their place, either through humor or cracking jokes, or just to make himself feel so much more superior.

Brad Minus: Yeah. That is about the textbook definition of narcissist right there. when you started to figure that out. Now, did that happen? Was that something that just was from the beginning? It was just something that you thought was I. part of his personality just from the beginning, or I did, it 

Kimber Foster: was arrogance and insecurity.

Brad Minus: Ah. 

Kimber Foster: the time I just thought, I thought, gosh, he, he was so talented at putting people down in such a funny way. But, you know, I realized later that it wasn't funny. A lot of people didn't take it that way and it was just to boost its own ego. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. so about. where and when did you feel like it was, I mean, it got bad to the point where it started going through your head about maybe possibly getting out?

Kimber Foster: Yeah, so we, our oldest son had a lot of health issues and challenges, and I was the. Primary parent. My ex couldn't deal with any dysfunction, any sickness. he was a completely detached parent, you know, he was a great provider. Providing financially for our children. he is always there for vacations, but when it came to going to surgeries and seeing doctors and therapies, he was completely absent.

I really struggled. It was tough, you know, sometimes I'd get home and I'm like, I can't handle this anymore. I need someone to help me, and he just wouldn't help. So that was a big struggle on our relationship. I found too that as time progressed, he became more and more. Verbally abusive to me and then later physically abusive.

Oh. So in, when we were living in Puerto Rico and some of those places, you know, I would call for help and the police wouldn't speak English or I was kind of caught in a catch 22. I couldn't put him in jail because we relied on his income and I couldn't just pack up three children and leave a foreign country.

I had nowhere to go. Didn't have a home base. 'cause we were together essentially our whole life since college, so 

Brad Minus: Wow, so you were basically captive. Yeah. 

Kimber Foster: No there wasn't. And I made the mistake at one point if expressing my desire to leave and he attacked me and said he would destroy me and, it was awful.

it was to the point where I actually tried to take my life because I felt like I had no out. So 

Brad Minus: what I mean you actually physically did make the attempt. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah, I did. 

Brad Minus: Oh my god, That is, no, that's narciss 

Kimber Foster: spins the narrative. they make you. your whole reality is you're on this crazy wheel and they distorted everything.

And he made me think that, my children, I was being a terrible parent. My son was sick because of me. Just, there was so many different components and I just felt like there was nothing I could do and there was no out. And I felt completely at God's mercy. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: I just can't imagine.

the helplessness that you must have felt, it must have been so frustrating. and just so tough. I can't imagine. 'cause I mean, you had three kids mm-hmm. That had to be just for you to even have the thoughts 

Kimber Foster: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Must have been weighing on you 

Kimber Foster: Well, when you're with a narcissist and in a toxic relationship like that, for so long I lost the person that I was back in college.

You know, the. Student council, president, cheerleader, homecoming queen. I lost her along the way as she was gone. I was a Husker, the person I was, you know, I wasn't as skinny, I wasn't as fit, I wasn't pretty enough. I wasn't smart enough. They just, they just break, break you down until you're a shell.

Brad Minus: how old were your children at this point? 

Kimber Foster: my youngest was. in grade school. And then I had a daughter in junior high and a son in high school 

Brad Minus: Okay. So this had been quite a, this had, this had been while high school, so it had to be 14, 15. Yeah. So I mean, you'd been married to this guy for 17, 18 years at this point.

Mm-hmm. That sound about right. Wow, it was a little longer. Yeah. That, that's a long time. and when did you feel, let's say that was, let's say that was year 18 or year 17. at which point, if you just counted by the years, do you think is got to the point where it, that's where it got so bad that you were not contemplating suicide at that point, but where you just, where.

Like you said, you were a husk of the person that you were. Mm-hmm. Where you started to feel like that was happening to you. If you can remember like that, if there's any way for you to look back. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah, it was a good 20 years. Okay. but it was a lot of bumps in the road. 

Brad Minus: Right. 

Kimber Foster: And, you know, there'd be so many times when I would just be ready to pack up and leave, but I'm like, where do I go?

Things would blow up and then he would come in, apologize, take me on these great trips. I mean, we had the perfect Facebook looking life. 

Brad Minus: Yep. 

Kimber Foster: we were doing all kinds of great things, living the high life. But there, were really ugly and dark.

Brad Minus: I mean, just a thought of it. talk to me about one of those dark times. because I'm trying to, I, you know, I just want to feel what you were feeling or get an idea of what you were feeling and what that might feel for somebody else that's going through that who might not even realize it's a dark time.

I mean, just like, well, this is just what marriage is. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah. Well, I, it just, like I said, it was a complete loss of myself and I felt there was nowhere else to go. There was nothing I could do. I had so much pain in my book, I talk about the day I actually left. Have you heard the story of the frog and the boiling water?

So if you, put a frog in a pot of water that's warm, increase the temperature over time, it will end up boiling to death. But if you throw a frog in that pot of boiling water, it's gonna immediately jump out, 

Brad Minus: right? 

Kimber Foster: I was that frog that was slowly burning, boiling to death. it was like I had a bucket of water, you know, and every drop of abuse over the years and the degrading comments and just accumulated over time until that last drop and the bucket just spilled over and it was like a waterfall of just, I can't do this anymore.

It was that fight or flight. And that's when you get to that point where you're contemplating suicide. It's just you want out. and it takes a lot to get to that point where you're like, I need to make a change. Otherwise, the what's up? What else are you gonna do? So that's where I got, and one of my favorite quotes that I've heard someone say to me, and I try to encourage this to other people, that if you are in a toxic relationship, you're sad, you're depressed, you feel like there's nowhere else to go.

What? You're not changing, you're choosing, you know? And I felt like I didn't have an out, like I didn't have money. I couldn't just pack up my kids, right? But there were resources. I just kept making excuses, and I was scared. I was afraid and that you really need to push those boundaries of fear. And so yeah, that's, I got to that point.

And then I got angry and then pulled up my big girl panties and I figured a way out and it wasn't easy. 

Brad Minus: That's interesting that you say that. You talk about the fear, you know? Mm-hmm. And how that, how, how that causes a lot now. The fear that you went through is, you know, a hundred times more than the comparison I wanna make, which is I have the same issue with some of my clients who are taking on some of these big challenges that had never tried before.

Whether it's to go fast or longer, stronger. you know, sometimes it's just like, nah, I want to, you know, I just wanna stay here. Or I have got clients that, so I've, most of my clients are one and done people. They're like, I wanna run my first marathon. And they come to me, I get 'em through it. 

But I do have some, I do have about five, six, habitual racers. And when I mentioned a lot of times I'll mention to them, Hey, let's take the next step. Like if you've been doing Olympic triathlon, triathlon, let's do a half Ironman. Let's try that. And there's always that. Maybe not this time, maybe not this time.

And I tell 'em, no, jump in, or I'm out. I says, I know I'm, I'm only gonna do what's best for you. I'm never gonna do anything less. Mm-hmm. I think it's time for you to take on the next challenge and a little himm and haw, and then they finally jump in and they're happy about that. So it's a much, much lower scale than what you went through, but it's something that happens in everyday life and things that can be learned from what you went through.

Even at a lower or higher scale. so I am very, very, happy that you did make that choice. Otherwise we won't be talking. I'm gonna chance to meet you. but let's talk about that last day. Let's talk about the day or the weeks turning up to you, your decision to leave. And then the execution.

So talk to me about like when you finally said this enough's enough. I need to make a plan and I need to get the heck out of here. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah. Well we were living in Puerto Rico, we were going to counseling, which later I learned just doesn't work when you're dealing with a narcissistic psychopath. 'cause they'll never take accountability.

They'll never take ownership. It's all the the blame game. When we moved back to the states, I think he knew I had a foot out the door. 'cause I had told him I was gonna leave him before. And, you know, then he loved bomb me all over, you know, said he wanted to make us work. We moved back, to the states.

He was actually demoted in his job, so he went from being a big fish to a little fish and a sea of sharks too. So, I was minute, I got back to the States. I hired an attorney and I had a knee replacement revision on my knee. I used to race downhill skiing back in the day, so I was laid up. and she's like, stay as long as you can.

And I really thought that staying in the marriage was good for my children. You know, I had a strong sense of, like I said. An obligation to my, my vows and to my children. But what I realized later was that I was just teaching my children what a dysfunctional relationship is, and I'm glad I, I finally made the change and the choice to leave, but it wasn't easy.

Yeah. So it was back when we got to the states and I gave it a couple years, we tried therapy. It didn't work I finally said on our anniversary, I walked out. Wow. Yeah. It was like I said, that bucket, that accumulation of all those drops over time, and this kid started talking to me with just respect, sounded just like him.

You know, the verbal abuse coming at me and I'm like, no, I'm not gonna do this anymore. I learned that I had to love myself and respect myself and become whole if I wanted to continue to move on and be the parent that my kids deserved. 

Brad Minus: Just the fact that he got your kids to be like him, that had to just Absolutely.

Since you were the one that was the primary parent? You were the one that was with them all the time. 

Kimber Foster: Mm-hmm. 

Brad Minus: And Oh, wow. 

Kimber Foster: And, you know, we were on all on a vacation in a little room and they just started talking to me with complete disrespect. And I, and there was a lot other things that happened that today, not one major thing, but like I said, it was accumulation of many things over time.

And that day I snapped and I had a, my first ever panic attack, I couldn't breathe, It was like my inner voice, or God was telling me, Nope, you're done. You gotta move on. It's crazy too. A little funny story. I dunno if it's funny, but they were all supposed to fly back the next day back to Michigan.

It was Christmas time. So he had the week off work and the kids had the week off from school and I had a brother in Florida and I said, I'm gonna go visit my brother. 'cause I needed time to really think and prepare and just something said I couldn't get on the plane the next day. 

Two days later, my dad had a heart attack and he lived in Florida. So I was there to take care of my dad the next few weeks, but if I had gotten on the plane, I wouldn't have been there for him. So I think it was a little bit of everything. It's like my, my inner voice needing to save myself, but also God telling me to stay so I could help my dad.

Brad Minus: Wow. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: That's something else. 

Kimber Foster: miracle. Really? 

Brad Minus: Pumpkin was like saying, you know, 

Kimber Foster: it's like when someone knows the plane's gonna crash or something. But I just get on the plane. 

Brad Minus: So, your dad lived through that, right? 

Kimber Foster: He did. But you know, you had to go through a couple surgeries to figure out what the problem was and then had to prepare him for open heart surgery and get everything set up for him before I flew back to Michigan.

So I was in Florida, hired my attorney, filed right away I was done. It takes a lot for an empath or someone like me. Who's been through years and years of abuse, like we keep taking it and taking it and taking it. And whenever we try to speak up or challenge a narcissist, they attack harder and harder.

And they put you in your place to silence you because they don't like to be proven wrong or challenged. but when you get us to a point. We're stronger than you think, and that's when that light bulb moment comes on. yeah, you dig down deep and you find that courage. 

Brad Minus: That is an amazing bit right there.

I can't, my, I'm drawing a blank, but yes. That when you're pushed far enough that that strength will come up. Mm-hmm. the thing is, and what I like to, impart not only to my clients, but to other people, is to figure out that you have that strength before you need it, you know?

Mm-hmm. Which is another reason why, I enjoy, being an endurance coach and I also coach kids and every other bit, is because I can sit there and talk to people and tell them. When they're in other situations. So as a coach, when you get to know your clients as like myself, you dig deep.

I'm not only their running coach, their swimming or biking coach, their obstacle course coach. But I've also become kind of a, I wouldn't say a therapist, they do throw some stuff at me. I've got some people that their spouses have died in the middle of them training.

So I get to hear all that. I'm there to help them through certain things I'm not the therapist, but I am there as a friend and someone to, 

Kimber Foster: but a lot of it's in the mindset 

Brad Minus: Right. so what I love to do is like when people like, like I've got people that do marathons, half marathons and stuff, and then they go through these troubling things and I'm able to say, listen, you ran 13 miles in a row.

Not everybody does that. If you could do that, you can get past this. It's true. And it's the same thing. And I tell people, my Ironman people, you know, so an Ironman is a 2.4 mile swim. Get out of the water, get on your bike, ride 112 miles, get off the bike now run 26.2 miles and people finish that and they go through something like this.

And I'm like, you are an iron man. You understand that what you did. You have more strength than you can possibly imagine. It's a nice way to bridge the physical and the mental and thephysical and the emotional, you know, when this, when, when one of my clients lost their spouse, and that's basically what it was.

It was like, you got this, you got this, you can get through it. You need to, you know, obviously the normal things like, go see someone, talk to somebody, You can do it, but you remember how much strength you've got, what you've done in your life, physical and mental. The strength is there.

Kimber Foster: but it's changing that narrative, and that's what I needed to do. Once I got through my divorce to move on, I had to change that narrative that I wasn't good enough, smart enough, lovable, you know, and instead of focusing on my year of, struggle. I, or my year of suffering. Now I focus on my year of thriving and surviving.

Yeah, it's like changing that whole negative narrative. Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Oh, but I can't imagine it is like, you know, but you went through over 20 years of that, of somebody beating you down and over and over again. So, you know, repetition is. Is where things become solidified. 

Kimber Foster: I was a psychology major.

I didn't see it. I was conditioned solely over time. I was that Pavlov, Pavlov's dog, you know, looking for little treats here and there. But, 

Brad Minus: and he unfortunately knew manipulation, traffic. Tactics to get you to do that, you know? Yep. Tore you down the minute he saw you, that you were starting to like, the, the wheels started turning about you leaving.

He's like, oh, no, no, no, no. Let's go on this thing. Let me take you on a trip and lemme throw you a birthday party. Or, Yeah. Wow. And you don't even know it's even happening. That's gotta be the worst thought. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah, and it wasn't until after I left him and after my divorce that I realized he was a narcissist and I wrote my book.

A while ago, before the n word was so mainstream, I call it the N word narcissist. I didn't even realize that I was married to a narcissistic psychopath. it wasn't until I started reading books and I discovered that my story wasn't unique, it was universal, it was textbook. So I took my journal and that's what my book is about.

I turned it into. a self-help guide to anybody that's in a toxic relationship. Learn how to identify the narcissistic, manipulative traits. So it's my journal, but I insert like 17 different manipulative traits like gaslighting and projection and alienation and all that. for me, it was very therapeutic.

Writing the books helped me understand how I'd gotten to that place in my life, 

Brad Minus: See that's, and that's what this podcast's all about. It's about people just like you that go through these challenges, change their lives, and then share the wisdom and help other people.

That's, yeah, I didn't quit my marriage. I 

Kimber Foster: survived it. Yeah. When I tell everybody I survived it and you know, I have three beautiful kids and there's so many things I am thankful for, and, going through the fear and pushing forward and focusing on survival and thriving and, you know, I wanted to make meaning of what I went through.

I really think God's purpose for me was to go through it. So I could learn and understand about it and help others. Now they're going through something similar. I wished I had somebody who would've helped me or, guided me or I could have gone to during that time. 

Brad Minus: And now you're that person for other people.

So if you were to go back and knowing what you know now and look back through, your relationship, what would be the first sign That you saw, that you now know, that you were with a narcissist, that first red flag that you could tell to other people that say, Hey, you see this, this is your first red flag.

It doesn't mean that he is a narcissist yet, but here's your first red flag. 

Kimber Foster: Oh, that's one's easy. It's love bombing. They come on so strong and so fast, they make you think that. you're everything. They're everything. they'll say, I've never met anyone like you.

You're the one for me. And they come on so strong and so fast. You think it's love at first sight, you know, or after two weeks you're like, this is the soul mate. But they come on so strong, so fast 'cause they want to hook you before their mask falls off. 

Brad Minus: So love bombing.

So that fast enough to the point where they're so and so, they don't, so they, they know not to, they can't make a mistake just yet. In case they make a mistake and they leave their match. They're already hooked. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah, 

Brad Minus: you're already hooked. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: So, all right, ladies and gentlemen, if you're not one of those people that are, if you, I mean, there's always people, that like if you're clinging too fast, I.

You're already out, right? But there are people that like that. 

Kimber Foster: especially empath, like people like me. I love the affection. I love the attention. I wanted love so badly. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. 

Kimber Foster: And you know, they tend to prey on people like us 'cause we're easily manipulative and controllable.

Brad Minus: Yeah. You and I might have that in common. Yeah, I don't know if it's lack of or just the fact that, I am, but yeah. So, all right, so if you're not one, if you're one of those people that happens to like the clingy and you like people that are hanging on your word and then giving you compliments back, be careful of the person that you're with, that this might be their way of starting to get their hooks in you.

So that's number one. Alright? Let's go on with number two. 

Kimber Foster: Well, I think number two would be easier to spot now that I'm older. It's about listening what they have to say. if they never take accountability, if they talk about past relationships, that it was the other person's fault, that they're always the victim, that's a big red flag because you can bet they'll talk about you that way someday.

Brad Minus: Right. Okay. 

Kimber Foster: vulnerability. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. So, if the person that you're with just never says, oh, that was my fault, or I screwed up, or, you know, I mean, unless you're dating a politician because they don't know how to say that either. But, yeah, that was a joke. You can laugh.

but yeah, so okay. That's a, that, yeah, that, that becomes super easy. But I think these are, and then 

Kimber Foster: it kind of goes right back to like, too, if they're always putting people down, even if it's in a funny manner, you know, they're always trying to elevate themselves to be superior. the confident one in the group, but it's really arrogance.

Watch out for that too. 

Brad Minus: Okay. So you're hanging out at a party and the person that you're with is putting people down where at least it seems like he's trying to be playful about it, you know? 

Kimber Foster: Yeah. Or the center of attention, the person that's always gotta be on stage. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. I mean, I know a lot of people that rib, you know, like guys get in their ribbing fests, you know? Right. They're supposed to be, it's all in fun and then, but usually it's like, nah, nah, dude. And they punch you, punch you in the arm and then you know, you hug it out. But it's not all the time, you know what I mean?

this happens probably with a narcissist, maybe a little bit more than often. Yes. Okay. I just want five, so I'm, let's go to number four. 

Kimber Foster: their lack of empathy. A narcissist can't be empathetic. They can't put themselves, their mindset just doesn't work that way.

They can't put themselves in somebody else's shoes for them feelings and anything like that is a waste of time. They can't be bothered. So that would be, you know, someone says, oh, they're sick. Too bad. Maybe they didn't eat the right food or something like that. You know, they lack empathy.

Brad Minus: Interesting. Wow. You just, yeah, I'm sorry. my mother-in-law, just left her husband and that just. Like hit the nail on the head for some of the things that her ex-husband was, was talking about, you know, and that like hit the nail on the head. Yeah, he did all that stuff. Never was wrong. Yeah. Well, I'm glad she got out.

I also had one of the episodes, I think, if I'm not mistaken, she was in the hospital and he stopped by like when he first dropped her off, and then was every excuse in the book to not be there. At the hospital, you know, That's, I mean, that's not caring for somebody, you know.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that the husband is like, got a dope every, if they're depending on what they're in the hospital for, you know? But I mean, I couldn't imagine. Not even my mom. Like, I couldn't imagine not spending hours with her when she was in the hospital for numerous different things.

Mm-hmm. like I be by her side. I wanna make sure, I mean, that's just caring for someone, but someone not being there, you know, and 

Kimber Foster: I had a dozen of those really like earth shattering experiences in my life. My husband wasn't there. Like I had a miscarriage and I had go to the hospital. 

I went by myself. He wasn't even there with me 'cause he had to work. it was one of the worst experiences of my life. the day my youngest son was born, I woke up in a pool of blood and I'm like, I think something's wrong. I need to go to the hospital. I drove myself to the hospital when he went to work.

I kid you not because you know his job was more important. 

Brad Minus: You know what I mean? 

Kimber Foster: The way they twist the words, you know, it's just, it's, and that's number five, is gaslighting. they'll, they'll twist your reality and they will bend anything to make it about them and make you question a reality, constantly.

they'll, they'll say things like, You're crazy. You're overreacting, you're making a big deal outta nothing. When you say to somebody like, oh, that really hurt my feelings that you weren't there for me that day in the hospital, and you be, well, you're making a big deal outta nothing. Like, what could I have done for you?

meanwhile, I'm providing work for you and I'm making all this money so you can live in this giant house. they spin it. That whole narrative. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. So those, there are five different ways to spot that you might be in a relationship with a narcissist.

Yeah. Kimber's got 17 of them located in her book. Year of thorns, what to expect when divorcing a narcissist. you've gotta pick up that book. It's on Amazon in the show notes. I will make sure that there is a direct link directly to there. But Kimber has also asked us something for you as well.

You know what? I think I'm gonna let you do that, Kimber. 

Kimber Foster: Oh, thank you. So when I went through my divorce, I knew it was going to be bad, but I had no idea the lengths that he would go to to destroy me. He tried to put me in jail. nothing could have prepared me for what I went through in my year of hell.

So I created after my divorce, my divorce checklist, which is the ultimate survival guide to breaking free of a toxic relationship. And I'm gonna offer it free to your listeners and viewers, if they click on the link. but in it, it goes over everything that you need to do to prepare before, during, after.

The things that you need to go through for your judgment of divorce, because if it's not in your judgment or whatever they call it in your state, which is like your Holy Bible, it won't be covered. Then after the fact. Like for example, we had three children and under the umbrella of child support, it's just your basic food, shelter, and clothing.

But he'd always say, oh, driver's training. That's not. That's covered under child support. You know, there's braces, there's video games, there's broken cell phones. Like there's so many different components to children that it's really important to have all that covered and broken down before or during the process of divorce because the level of conflict between parents is really, really hard on children.

So as much, if you can alleviate that through agreements, And this guide will help with that too. 

Brad Minus: That's outstanding. I'm gonna leave a link. the link will be in the show notes. if you're watching on YouTube, it's also gonna be in the description.

there'll be a link right in there. it'll be a little long, but it's there and it'll be marked. also her Facebook page. 

Kimber Foster: Yeah, I have a year of Thorns face Facebook page. Okay. And, yeah, year of thorns.com is my blog and websites and oh, there'll be links on there too. 

Brad Minus: Great. Great, great. 

Kimber Foster: just year of thorns and it'll look like that.

Brad Minus: Year of thorns.com. 

Kimber Foster: Yep. 

Brad Minus: You know, I missed that one when doing my research. There it is. All right, great. Yeah, and she's got her blogs in here. you could buy the book right from there. You can actually contact her right from there. So yes, definitely go to year of thorns.com. That's will also be in the show notes.

And there's a way to contact her right there. she has a Facebook page for Year of Thorns. are you in any other, social platforms? 

Kimber Foster: I think I have an Instagram account too. I'm a little bit technically challenged, but I'm working on it. 

Brad Minus: Okay.

Kimber Foster: the best way to reach me is through my year thorns and I also do coaching and things like that too, for anybody that may need some help. 

Brad Minus: Well, that's exactly, that's the giving back part. That I love so much, which is what we do here, right? Mm-hmm. finding people that are going through these challenges and helping them, helping them through it to thrive, survive, and, and, get, maximize their potential.

Kimber Foster: know. 

Brad Minus: closing? Absolutely. Use it. Use it. but yeah, so speaking of YouTube, if you happen to be watching on YouTube, please hit that subscribe button and the like button and, and, hit that notification bell so you always know. And we're gonna go ahead and drop a new episode.

And if you're listening on Apple, if you're listening on Spotify, please go ahead and drop us a review. I don't care if it's a bad review, matter of fact, that, you know, that gives us more idea on how I can help evolve the podcast. you can, if you were a, if you been want, if you've been listening since, since episode one, you'll see that this has definitely evolved in certain ways.

remaining truth to the message, but it has evolved. so I always love, evolving it even more and that's all up to you. So thank you for doing that. But Kimber, Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I hope everybody gets excited about, reading a year of thorns and, I think you'll really all enjoy it.

There's a lot of great information in there. thank you so much for your wisdom and your guide today. 

Kimber Foster: Thank you for having me. 

Brad Minus: Oh, the pleasure was all mine. Thank you so much and for Kimber and myself, thank you for listening 

Bye.